Okay, so I know I rarely reply to every Tom, Dick, and Harry who thinks they got a knock down argument against atheism but some are so obnoxious not to reply would be a crime against human decency. A Pastor by the name of Rick Henderson wrote a blog thinking that he had such a knock down argument. Problem is if I just wanted to do it short-and-sweet refutation just one sentence would do it: atheism has only to do with not believing a god(s)... or goddess(es).
Had Pastor Henderson made an argument for divine command theory as the only way to have moral standards, then he might have made a case for atheist being inconsistent for having moral standards. Instead it seems he assumed that would be the case if he criticized atheist (and poorly) that would somehow make that argument for him. It really doesn't raise much above that. He even attempts to antagonize any would-be readers.
"You clicked on this post for one of two reasons. Either you're hoping
that I'm right or you know that I'm wrong. For those of you who are
eager to pierce me with your wit and crush my pre-modern mind, allow me
to issue a challenge. I contend that any response you make will only
prove my case. Like encountering a hustler on the streets of Vegas, the
deck is stacked, and the odds are not in your favor."
Telling people why they are reading your post and pegging them into a false dichotomy never seems to go well. First people will either hope that he is right, which does not make sense. Why would anyone hope that atheism and moral standards are not compatible? Does someone have a death wish to be murdered by an atheist that realized that life has no purpose and should go on a killing spree? Then it is "...or you know that I'm wrong." Well he get no argument from me. If I knew that he is wrong, then he would be wrong. You can't know something and it be false. He should say "...or that you think that I am wrong." Then to issue a challenge and to only proclaim one's victory as if it so self-evident is arrogant. Even if the impossible happened and he proved that atheist couldn't possibly have morals, it wouldn't covert any atheist with a brain to believe in god. You figure that Pastors care about covering the unbeliever but not Pastor Henderson. He is either too arrogant or incompetent to do his job.
Now I agree that everyone has a worldview but Pastor H. seems to think that there is more to atheism to disallow morality. There really nothing in atheism that dictates any sort of worldview as long as that it doesn't have a god in it. But lets see his 3 atheist "affirmations."
"1. The universe is purely material. It is strictly natural, and there is no such thing as the supernatural (e.g., gods or spiritual forces).
2. The universe is scientific. It is observable, knowable and governed strictly by the laws of physics.
3. The universe is impersonal. It does not a have consciousness or a will, nor is it guided by a consciousness or a will."
1. Does not have to be affirmed at all. I personally think the supernatural is nonsense. However, an atheist can believe in magic, miracles, and the afterlife. Either way I don't see how this has anything to do with morality or even atheism.
2. I agree that the universe is knowable but it not governed by the laws of physics. That implies a cause and effect. What a Law is that phenomenon is so predictable that it can be summed up by mathematical formula. That is it. Oh and it has nothing to do with morality or even atheism.
3. If you got three right, then how you miss two? This at least has something to with atheism because if an person believed that the universe is conscious then they would be a pantheist. However, it has nothing to do with morality.
"Denial of any one of those three affirmations will strike a mortal blow
to atheism. Anything and everything that happens in such a universe is
meaningless. A tree falls. A young girl is rescued from sexual
slavery. A dog barks. A man is killed for not espousing the national
religion. These are all actions that can be known and explained but
never given any meaning or value"
Again, Pastor H. overstates his case and has no idea how hard he fails. Just because a god doesn't impose his/her purpose will on you, then you cannot find your own value or worth? Has this guy never heard of existentialism?
"A good atheist -- that is, a consistent atheist -- recognizes this
dilemma. His only reasonable conclusion is to reject objective meaning
and morality. Thus, calling him "good" in the moral sense is
nonsensical. There is no morally good atheist, because there really is
no objective morality. At best, morality is the mass delusion shared by
humanity, protecting us from the cold sting of despair."
Okay, so moral relativism is a problem for Pastor H. What he doesn't realize that it been a problem for philosophy for years. It is not just a problem for atheist. Everyone has to justify his/her morality and I do mean Everyone. That includes theist like Pastor H. At least I know how I justify my morality. However, for Pastor H. "god done did it" is all he needs.
"For those of you who think you're about to light up this supposed straw man and raze me to the ground, consider the following:"
You are aware that quote mining doesn't stop you from strawmanning, right? Of course not. Giving there names isn't enough as a quote attribution to avoid the charge of quote mining. Give the exact location and the full quote so that the reader can see that the context is correct. Just bold that you want to draw attention too and let the reader know what you are emphasizing. Two of the three quotes have ellipses. He is definitely not showing everything. I am not going to contest the William Provine and Edward O. Wilson quotes but I do know Richard Dawkins quote. It is from Out of Eden on the problem of evil. Dawkins was noting that natural problem of evil isn't a problem for atheist because one does not have to explain the actions (or inactions) of a omnipotent being. It isn't a moral proclamation. Even if Pastor H. managed to cherry pick all the atheist that agree that morality isn't dictated by deity and therefore relative, so what? Doesn't follow that ALL atheist should be that way.
So It now comes to what Pastor H. thinks are atheist responses and there only two... I could think of more like Hume's common moral sentiments or Kant's categorical imperatives but apparently morality is due to either evolution or logic.
How Pastor H. objects to idea of evolution making morality a desirable trait in a social species is.... making a few hypotheticals of passing on genes immorally by mass rape or killing the handicapped and the reformer's fallacy. Completely missing the totally easy critique of that evolution only tells us how moral sentiments in the human species came about but it does not really tell us what we ought to behave. Rape can be a very dangerous action to take on. Other members may either exile or kill you in the process and the females may not even take care the young that come from this. This does not help with group cohesion. Most born handicapped died young in the per-historic past so it is not much of determent for evolution since they don't stay around. However, those injured do recover since many cave-man bones have been found to have healed from brakes that would be inconvenient even in modern life. Why would caring for a injured companion be a disadvantage when the can return to work and reciprocate the gesture? Pastor H. seems to lack imagination how cave-men behave. Evolution and game theory can perfectly explain moral origins. Now the reformer's fallacy is certainly a paradox for relativist but I don't see how this does anything with my atheism and morality, or morality's evolutionary origins.
"2. Morality is logical. Atheists who take this route
start in a position of checkmate without realizing it. First, the
temptation is to pervert this conversation into a debate about whether
atheists can be moral. Of course they can. That is not the question.
The question is how we make sense of moral claims if we play by the
rules that atheism demands.
Morality may be logical, but logic does not equate to morality. The
only way to make a logical moral argument is to presuppose morality and
meaning to start with. Try making a logical argument that slavery is
wrong without presupposing morality. It is impossible."
If moral claims equate to real world effects, then moral claims can be made by atheist. Here is my morality. Every person has autonomy and creates his/her own values. To deny anyone of his/her autonomy or deny him/her from following his/her values would be inconsistent. So everything that Pastor H. claims that atheist cannot forbid is easily forbidden by that simple principle. Empathy and reciprocation easily fit into this framework and easily denies all the common moral prohibitions(theft, rape, murder, etc.). How it is even possible to deny anyone of that? Whom will make that decision and why do he/she gets to make it? They will have to use his/her autonomy and values to do it.
"All logical arguments for morality assume that human thriving, happiness
and dignity are superior to contrary views. The strict framework of
atheism does not allow for those starting points. So any person arguing
for 1 or 2 would not be a good atheist. That is, he lives in
contradiction to the mandates of his worldview."
I don't see how theism surmount that problem if you deny my position as well. If god told you that he created humanity to suffer unimaginable pain for eternity and things like slavery and rape are good in certain situations, would you go along with that? Oh wait, you already do. The god of the bible already knows that majority of humanity will burn forever in the pits of hell and commanded and allowed the ancient Israelites to have slaves, and have there way with female slaves they own(rape), and of course genocide. If Pastor H. cannot honestly admit this without getting in a big debate about the bible or theology, then he his not being honest with himself or the people he preaches to. He certainly has no grounds to complain about atheists and morality when he believes in a god that clearly doesn't have morality either.
"Conclusion
Intelligent people ask serious questions. Serious questions deserve
serious answers. There are few questions more serious than the one I'm
asking. How do we explain objective meaning and morality that we know
are true? If a worldview can't answer this question, it doesn't deserve
you.
One sign that your worldview may be a crutch is that it has to appeal
to an answer outside itself -- becoming self-contradictory, unable to
reasonably account for the question. Any atheist who recognizes
objective meaning and morality defies the atheism that he contends is
true.
If your worldview can't makes sense of the things that make most
sense to you (like objective morality), then it's not worth your
allegiance. This new reality may launch you onto a journey of reluctant
discovery. Whoever you are. Wherever you are. Whatever you believe.
You deserve a foundation that is strong enough to carry the values that
carry you."
One, take your own advice. Two, Irony doesn't even begin to describe Pastor H. pitiful state. Three, again even if Pastor H. is right that atheism and morals don't mix. So what? It doesn't make believe in a god. Why can't theists see this as a bad apologetic to convert atheists?
Saturday, December 21, 2013
Sunday, September 4, 2011
The Problem of Evil
The problem of evil has been along standing problem for theism to surmount. Now it may not be a problem for every type of god but it is fatal to a particular kind. Namely a god that is able and willing to end suffering. But as Epicurus said, "Then whence cometh evil?" Over a few thousand years has past and theist have offered answers in-order to try to satisfy that question. Here I plain to go over a few of them and show just how insufficient they really are.
The problem of evil can be formulated as follows:
P1. God is all-powerful
P2. God is good (or omnibenevolent)
P3. There exist unnecessary evil or gratuitous suffering
P4. P1 and P2 conflict with P3
C1. Therefore a god with properties from P1 and P2 does not exist.
The contradiction that exist isn't obvious at first if we don't qualify what we mean by good. I would think that most people would agree that good would "reduce or confront evil whenever possible." If accepting that, then a god that could reduce evil would be considered morally superior to a god who does not. The Abrahamic God is considered the most morally perfect god possible, at least according to the argument of Ontology. So this a pretty thorny issue to say such a god exists and there is evil at the same time.
The theodicies that defend agaisnt the problem of evil break down into two broad categories. There is the natural theodicies and the moral theodicies.
The natural theodicies can be further broken down to four answers.
A. Evil is a necessary counter part to good.
B. Evil is necessary for a short-term or long-term good.
C. Evil is the punishment for sin
D. Evil is only a by-product of natural law
Evil as necessary component to understand what is good is quite frankly absurd. Do people need to go through debilitating diseases to understand what it is to be healthy? Do people really have to starve to death so that others should understand what it means to be well fed? And what do animals gain by going through similar experiences? They are capable of suffering too, you know. Worst of all, such a proposition would make evil eternally necessary. So long as there is good, there would be evil. Clearly not compatible with theologies that would eventually put an end to evil for-once-and-for-all.
Evil as necessary for short/long-term gain is normally what we call as "necessary evil." Open heart surgery is painful, but is is more preferable from dieing from a heart attack. Something like that is understandable to go through but how does that explain those who are maimed or tortured through no fault of there own? How does that justify those who lose his/her life when a sudden earthquake or land slide happens? Gratuitous suffering still seems to be an open question even when granting this answer.
Evil as a punishment for sins creates one of the most reprehensible and question begging mind sets out of any of the others that I could talk about here. Unfortunately it is also one of the most common. When in March 2011 earthquake/tsunami hit Japan, many people believed that God was visiting wrath upon Japan. The same was said of the 2004 tsunami, hurricane Katrina, 9/11, and yes, even the holocaust. This type of thinking categorically denies that it even possible that innocent people would die or suffer in these events... because everyone is evil... Even if we were to grant such an absurd proposition, there still such a thing as overly cruel punishment to the wicked. Which is codified in the 8th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. So it not like anyone doesn't understand the concept.
Evil as a by-product of natural law seems to make little sense with a all-powerful god. Why does god have to make a universe with natural law? Why not one with magic capable of mitigating evil in the world? Or simply design a better world? God could have just as easily put all life on a Dyson sphere or ring, rather than just on a planet that is prone to earthquakes and bad weather. This really implicates god as having a lack of imagination. Further, even if we were to grant our current state of affairs with natural law as desirable, there still exists suffering that would be unnecessary. If we could know the cure to HIV, cancer, ect., gain knowledge to farming techniques that could end hunger, could accurately predict and prepare for natural disasters... Why wouldn't a good god share such knowledge if he had it?
The moral theodicies broken down into only two answers:
A. Evil is necessary for virute
B. Evil is a necessary by-product of free will
Evil as an necessity for virtue harkens back to "necessary evil" again but this time for the moral equivalent. Yes, it takes danger for there to be courage, suffering for there to be compassion, and anger for there to be restraint. However, nobody ever considers it a moral obligation to rob a bank so that the cop can do his job in protecting or cause a famine so that others can be charitable. I think everyone can see that causing (or allowing) harm to people so that others can work on their virtue is morally shaky at best and engages in "the ends justify the means" at worst. Sorry, but living in a world without cops and doctors (because they are unnecessary) is still more preferable than living in a world that does have them. Finally, what is courage when someone has gained eternal paradise? Whether someone had courage or not at that point would become meaningless.
The "free will" defense in my opinion is on of the most problematic of all. One, it assumes that "free will" is more desirable than having an evil free world. Two, many Jews, Muslims, and Christians believe in predestination. So this theodicy is an apologetic for a very particular branch of Christian theology. Three, it makes an sinless eternal paradise impossible. Four, it may actually be possible to create a world where nobody choices evil. To deny such possibility would force the theist to admit that god doesn't have "free will" or that god doesn't always choose good. If both are possible in god, then why can't he create others that are like him that respect? Again, something like this demonstrates a lack of imagination.
Even after all of this, there still may be theist who would say that "God may still have a morally justifiable reason to allow evil." One, that technically a contradiction because evil by definition is unjustifiable. Two, it is an admittance of lack of imagination on their part, which means this is a statement of faith more than anything else. I am sorry, but I don't have enough faith to override my reasoning and the evidences I see about he world around me.
The problem of evil can be formulated as follows:
P1. God is all-powerful
P2. God is good (or omnibenevolent)
P3. There exist unnecessary evil or gratuitous suffering
P4. P1 and P2 conflict with P3
C1. Therefore a god with properties from P1 and P2 does not exist.
The contradiction that exist isn't obvious at first if we don't qualify what we mean by good. I would think that most people would agree that good would "reduce or confront evil whenever possible." If accepting that, then a god that could reduce evil would be considered morally superior to a god who does not. The Abrahamic God is considered the most morally perfect god possible, at least according to the argument of Ontology. So this a pretty thorny issue to say such a god exists and there is evil at the same time.
The theodicies that defend agaisnt the problem of evil break down into two broad categories. There is the natural theodicies and the moral theodicies.
The natural theodicies can be further broken down to four answers.
A. Evil is a necessary counter part to good.
B. Evil is necessary for a short-term or long-term good.
C. Evil is the punishment for sin
D. Evil is only a by-product of natural law
Evil as necessary component to understand what is good is quite frankly absurd. Do people need to go through debilitating diseases to understand what it is to be healthy? Do people really have to starve to death so that others should understand what it means to be well fed? And what do animals gain by going through similar experiences? They are capable of suffering too, you know. Worst of all, such a proposition would make evil eternally necessary. So long as there is good, there would be evil. Clearly not compatible with theologies that would eventually put an end to evil for-once-and-for-all.
Evil as necessary for short/long-term gain is normally what we call as "necessary evil." Open heart surgery is painful, but is is more preferable from dieing from a heart attack. Something like that is understandable to go through but how does that explain those who are maimed or tortured through no fault of there own? How does that justify those who lose his/her life when a sudden earthquake or land slide happens? Gratuitous suffering still seems to be an open question even when granting this answer.
Evil as a punishment for sins creates one of the most reprehensible and question begging mind sets out of any of the others that I could talk about here. Unfortunately it is also one of the most common. When in March 2011 earthquake/tsunami hit Japan, many people believed that God was visiting wrath upon Japan. The same was said of the 2004 tsunami, hurricane Katrina, 9/11, and yes, even the holocaust. This type of thinking categorically denies that it even possible that innocent people would die or suffer in these events... because everyone is evil... Even if we were to grant such an absurd proposition, there still such a thing as overly cruel punishment to the wicked. Which is codified in the 8th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. So it not like anyone doesn't understand the concept.
Evil as a by-product of natural law seems to make little sense with a all-powerful god. Why does god have to make a universe with natural law? Why not one with magic capable of mitigating evil in the world? Or simply design a better world? God could have just as easily put all life on a Dyson sphere or ring, rather than just on a planet that is prone to earthquakes and bad weather. This really implicates god as having a lack of imagination. Further, even if we were to grant our current state of affairs with natural law as desirable, there still exists suffering that would be unnecessary. If we could know the cure to HIV, cancer, ect., gain knowledge to farming techniques that could end hunger, could accurately predict and prepare for natural disasters... Why wouldn't a good god share such knowledge if he had it?
The moral theodicies broken down into only two answers:
A. Evil is necessary for virute
B. Evil is a necessary by-product of free will
Evil as an necessity for virtue harkens back to "necessary evil" again but this time for the moral equivalent. Yes, it takes danger for there to be courage, suffering for there to be compassion, and anger for there to be restraint. However, nobody ever considers it a moral obligation to rob a bank so that the cop can do his job in protecting or cause a famine so that others can be charitable. I think everyone can see that causing (or allowing) harm to people so that others can work on their virtue is morally shaky at best and engages in "the ends justify the means" at worst. Sorry, but living in a world without cops and doctors (because they are unnecessary) is still more preferable than living in a world that does have them. Finally, what is courage when someone has gained eternal paradise? Whether someone had courage or not at that point would become meaningless.
The "free will" defense in my opinion is on of the most problematic of all. One, it assumes that "free will" is more desirable than having an evil free world. Two, many Jews, Muslims, and Christians believe in predestination. So this theodicy is an apologetic for a very particular branch of Christian theology. Three, it makes an sinless eternal paradise impossible. Four, it may actually be possible to create a world where nobody choices evil. To deny such possibility would force the theist to admit that god doesn't have "free will" or that god doesn't always choose good. If both are possible in god, then why can't he create others that are like him that respect? Again, something like this demonstrates a lack of imagination.
Even after all of this, there still may be theist who would say that "God may still have a morally justifiable reason to allow evil." One, that technically a contradiction because evil by definition is unjustifiable. Two, it is an admittance of lack of imagination on their part, which means this is a statement of faith more than anything else. I am sorry, but I don't have enough faith to override my reasoning and the evidences I see about he world around me.
Sunday, August 21, 2011
Apparently atheist believe in "intelligent falling" according to Ray Comfort.
In Ray Comforts latest blog, "What atheists believe..." he says that "Atheists believe that gravity thinks intelligently, makes plans, and then creates the concept it has in mind." It doesn't take long to realize that Ray Comfort isn't the smartest sandwich in the basket. That particular revelation made me more honest and introspective when it came to my christianity but still eventually lead to my atheism. So keep up the good work Ray, you are making more atheist than I can.
Now what this argument is a futile attempt to counter the response to design like arguments. Normally a theist would say "Tide goes in, Tide goes out. Never a miss-communication.", as an argument for the existence of a god. (Hey! Maybe Bill O'Reily and Ray Comfort should go out for some drinks?) At that point the atheist would merely point out that is the result of physical processes.
Ray here is obviously trying to say "Well, those processes are designed by god." That fine but that isn't what the Biblical god says about rain. The Bible says that god is the one that controls the rain via opening the "windows of heaven" in Gen. 7:11. Further, it never really matters how far back anyone could trace physical processes, at least not to Ray and his ilk, they will always claim that was the plain of god all along and that he is clever for making the laws in the way he did. Meanwhile in other parts of the world that same natural process is either causing drought or floods that are killing people. Yet god did not mean for that to happen but he does mean to water the crops when that happens.... rrrrriiiiigggghhhttttt....
Now what this argument is a futile attempt to counter the response to design like arguments. Normally a theist would say "Tide goes in, Tide goes out. Never a miss-communication.", as an argument for the existence of a god. (Hey! Maybe Bill O'Reily and Ray Comfort should go out for some drinks?) At that point the atheist would merely point out that is the result of physical processes.
Ray here is obviously trying to say "Well, those processes are designed by god." That fine but that isn't what the Biblical god says about rain. The Bible says that god is the one that controls the rain via opening the "windows of heaven" in Gen. 7:11. Further, it never really matters how far back anyone could trace physical processes, at least not to Ray and his ilk, they will always claim that was the plain of god all along and that he is clever for making the laws in the way he did. Meanwhile in other parts of the world that same natural process is either causing drought or floods that are killing people. Yet god did not mean for that to happen but he does mean to water the crops when that happens.... rrrrriiiiigggghhhttttt....
Sunday, July 31, 2011
The impossiblity of defining god.
The quickest and easiest way to prove that god does not exist is simply ask for a proper definition of god. You cannot say something exists if by definition it doesn't entail any properties that are seen in reality. You could can go as far as saying it impossible to exist if that definition would contradict itself. Now there are several different versions of what a god is:
Pantheism- god is the universe.
Panentheism - god is the universe and more than that as well.
god-lings - immortal beings with powers.
Classical theism - an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, atemporal, immaterial being.
Three of the four are improper or contradictory definitions of god.
What pantheism seem to suggest is that the universe is conscious and has a will and intentions of it own. The problem that this proposes is that conscious is typically aware of things other than itself. While being self aware is a component of consciousness, you cannot have that awareness without there being something other than yourself to relate to. Consciousness allows you to understand your relation to the rest of your surroundings. For the universe, there is nothing to be related to. That all there is. Another interesting property of consciousness that it is a very highly interconnected phenomenon. Every part of the brain can communicate with every other part. For the universe it is expanding faster than the speed of light. This means if a beam of light left the earth now, there are some parts of the universe it would never reach. So this "consciousness" has nothing other than itself to be aware of and not all of it could possibly be in contact with itself. So how is this consciousness at all?
Panentheism has all the flaws of pantheism and more. So instead of the universe being all there is, there is more that is transcendent of reality. So how is the universe a part of god? Is is god's fingernail? Is it his skin? Is it a part of his mind? What? How is there a way that we can know (actually know an not have a strong conviction of) of the transcendent? What does it even mean to transcend reality? Reality is all there is. It is one thing to transcend matter (what even meant by that?), but all of reality? Transcendent seems just to be an unknowable thing making it useless to talk about it at all.
God-lings are the only thing that can seem can be a part of reality and known potentially. A "natural" god if you say. So if something may join with nano-technology down to the cellular level... and that granted it biological immorality and maybe laser beam eyes... that would be a god like. Now this doesn't entail that it is indestructible or all powerful but that has been god(s) in the past none-the-less. The Olympian gods and all other pagan gods could fall in this category as well. But with no evidence of these beings, there is no reason to believe they exist. You can say the may exist but that is the best you can do. Agnosticism isn't an argument for theism, just agnosticism. However, these are still natural. Some may say that for a god to be a god. It must be supernatural. That however may be noncognative as well.
Now for the god that nearly every Jew, Christian and Muslim say they think exists. This one by far is the most loaded concept of god. All the omni attributes are simply relational attributes. That doesn't describe anything. The immaterial and atemporal are negative properties. That REALLY doesn't describe anything either. Now lets look at each of them closer.
Omnipotent... yes lets talk about the rock that god cannot lift. Now many will say that it is meaningless to talk about doing logically impossible things. This may be true for things like making a square-circle but this isn't the case with the problem of the rock. Let me modify it so to make my point. Can I make a bench press so heavy that I cannot lift? Yes, this is a possible state of affairs that is meaningful. But can god? For this the question cannot be answered because either way it fails to be met. This is due precisely to the concept itself, thus proving it to be flawed. The only reasonable solution is to drop the concept entirely for a more coherent one. My suggestion is to swap it with "maximally powerful". This does not suffer of the problem of rock because it recognizes a limitation. This, however, is still a relational attribute and the end does not tell us what god is.
Omnipresent. Now there are two ways of taking this one. One that is possible and another that is contradictory. One that is possible is that just that god is aware of every spacial point and can exercise his power in any spacial point. The only thing that is left after that point is to describe how that state of affairs is possible or how it would work. The second way is to say that god is actually present in the same sense that everything else is present at its point in space. The problem with that is that has to be material in some way which that directly conflict with the immaterial quality. But either way still does not tell us what god is.
Omniscient. For this one to be even possible is that all things could be know. According to Gödel's incompleteness theorem that is not possible. With in every system there are a set of axioms that are assumed true and from there you work out what is true and what is not. With in the liar's paradox this an demonstration of that the axioms cannot be used to prove themselves. If a liar tell you he is lying.. then that means he is telling the truth.... but telling the truth is what a liar does not do. This is unsolvable problem. This may be in reality that there maybe no set of axioms to which to be used to prove everything else and itself. How is it possible for an omniscient being to be aware of what it is like to be ignorant? To be aware of that means not to be ignorant. Even accepting this as possible this still does not tell us what god is.
Omnibenevolent. Here, obviously, I will have to talk about the problem of evil, but I will not go into much detail. I will do a more robust defense later. Simply put you cannot be aware of someone's suffering and be able to remedy it and at the same time do nothing about it. Being benevolent would become meaningless if no action is required to be a benevolent person. To get around this they say that "god has a morally sufficient reason to allow suffering." I could say why that is contradictory, but I will do that next blog.
Atemporal and immaterial. How is that a person is without time? There are no events, nothing to react to, no continuity what-so-ever. Everything at once, for lack of a better description, would occur at the same "time." So how it is said that god does anything or chooses to do anything?- because that would imply events within a time line. Then there is not being composed of matter... Everything that we know of is of matter. Now I am not saying that everything that exist IS matter but it is still a fact everything we KNOW OF is matter. So what is not matter? Some say that immaterial just means that it has no parts. That doesn't make sense either. If it exist, then it at least has one part. So god is a conscious being but only has one part. That is impossible because consciousness has many parts. Consciousness requires emotion, memories, thoughts, senses, and awareness. All these not only require time as a part of their description but in psychology these are indeed separable modules in human consciousness. This making it unlike anything that we would call conscious. Robbing any possible of meaning by using that word. The phenomenon of consciousness is not reducible to one singular explanation, nor is it possible to describe without time. So, atemporal and immaterial are incompatible with the idea of a personal god.
Now many would respond and say that god is simply-complex but little do they know, that is my point. It is a contradiction. God has no meaning just like a square-circle has no meaning. So, I ask, without using relational descriptions and negative properties, what is god? If you cannot answer, then why do you expect me to believe in such a thing?
Pantheism- god is the universe.
Panentheism - god is the universe and more than that as well.
god-lings - immortal beings with powers.
Classical theism - an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, atemporal, immaterial being.
Three of the four are improper or contradictory definitions of god.
What pantheism seem to suggest is that the universe is conscious and has a will and intentions of it own. The problem that this proposes is that conscious is typically aware of things other than itself. While being self aware is a component of consciousness, you cannot have that awareness without there being something other than yourself to relate to. Consciousness allows you to understand your relation to the rest of your surroundings. For the universe, there is nothing to be related to. That all there is. Another interesting property of consciousness that it is a very highly interconnected phenomenon. Every part of the brain can communicate with every other part. For the universe it is expanding faster than the speed of light. This means if a beam of light left the earth now, there are some parts of the universe it would never reach. So this "consciousness" has nothing other than itself to be aware of and not all of it could possibly be in contact with itself. So how is this consciousness at all?
Panentheism has all the flaws of pantheism and more. So instead of the universe being all there is, there is more that is transcendent of reality. So how is the universe a part of god? Is is god's fingernail? Is it his skin? Is it a part of his mind? What? How is there a way that we can know (actually know an not have a strong conviction of) of the transcendent? What does it even mean to transcend reality? Reality is all there is. It is one thing to transcend matter (what even meant by that?), but all of reality? Transcendent seems just to be an unknowable thing making it useless to talk about it at all.
God-lings are the only thing that can seem can be a part of reality and known potentially. A "natural" god if you say. So if something may join with nano-technology down to the cellular level... and that granted it biological immorality and maybe laser beam eyes... that would be a god like. Now this doesn't entail that it is indestructible or all powerful but that has been god(s) in the past none-the-less. The Olympian gods and all other pagan gods could fall in this category as well. But with no evidence of these beings, there is no reason to believe they exist. You can say the may exist but that is the best you can do. Agnosticism isn't an argument for theism, just agnosticism. However, these are still natural. Some may say that for a god to be a god. It must be supernatural. That however may be noncognative as well.
Now for the god that nearly every Jew, Christian and Muslim say they think exists. This one by far is the most loaded concept of god. All the omni attributes are simply relational attributes. That doesn't describe anything. The immaterial and atemporal are negative properties. That REALLY doesn't describe anything either. Now lets look at each of them closer.
Omnipotent... yes lets talk about the rock that god cannot lift. Now many will say that it is meaningless to talk about doing logically impossible things. This may be true for things like making a square-circle but this isn't the case with the problem of the rock. Let me modify it so to make my point. Can I make a bench press so heavy that I cannot lift? Yes, this is a possible state of affairs that is meaningful. But can god? For this the question cannot be answered because either way it fails to be met. This is due precisely to the concept itself, thus proving it to be flawed. The only reasonable solution is to drop the concept entirely for a more coherent one. My suggestion is to swap it with "maximally powerful". This does not suffer of the problem of rock because it recognizes a limitation. This, however, is still a relational attribute and the end does not tell us what god is.
Omnipresent. Now there are two ways of taking this one. One that is possible and another that is contradictory. One that is possible is that just that god is aware of every spacial point and can exercise his power in any spacial point. The only thing that is left after that point is to describe how that state of affairs is possible or how it would work. The second way is to say that god is actually present in the same sense that everything else is present at its point in space. The problem with that is that has to be material in some way which that directly conflict with the immaterial quality. But either way still does not tell us what god is.
Omniscient. For this one to be even possible is that all things could be know. According to Gödel's incompleteness theorem that is not possible. With in every system there are a set of axioms that are assumed true and from there you work out what is true and what is not. With in the liar's paradox this an demonstration of that the axioms cannot be used to prove themselves. If a liar tell you he is lying.. then that means he is telling the truth.... but telling the truth is what a liar does not do. This is unsolvable problem. This may be in reality that there maybe no set of axioms to which to be used to prove everything else and itself. How is it possible for an omniscient being to be aware of what it is like to be ignorant? To be aware of that means not to be ignorant. Even accepting this as possible this still does not tell us what god is.
Omnibenevolent. Here, obviously, I will have to talk about the problem of evil, but I will not go into much detail. I will do a more robust defense later. Simply put you cannot be aware of someone's suffering and be able to remedy it and at the same time do nothing about it. Being benevolent would become meaningless if no action is required to be a benevolent person. To get around this they say that "god has a morally sufficient reason to allow suffering." I could say why that is contradictory, but I will do that next blog.
Atemporal and immaterial. How is that a person is without time? There are no events, nothing to react to, no continuity what-so-ever. Everything at once, for lack of a better description, would occur at the same "time." So how it is said that god does anything or chooses to do anything?- because that would imply events within a time line. Then there is not being composed of matter... Everything that we know of is of matter. Now I am not saying that everything that exist IS matter but it is still a fact everything we KNOW OF is matter. So what is not matter? Some say that immaterial just means that it has no parts. That doesn't make sense either. If it exist, then it at least has one part. So god is a conscious being but only has one part. That is impossible because consciousness has many parts. Consciousness requires emotion, memories, thoughts, senses, and awareness. All these not only require time as a part of their description but in psychology these are indeed separable modules in human consciousness. This making it unlike anything that we would call conscious. Robbing any possible of meaning by using that word. The phenomenon of consciousness is not reducible to one singular explanation, nor is it possible to describe without time. So, atemporal and immaterial are incompatible with the idea of a personal god.
Now many would respond and say that god is simply-complex but little do they know, that is my point. It is a contradiction. God has no meaning just like a square-circle has no meaning. So, I ask, without using relational descriptions and negative properties, what is god? If you cannot answer, then why do you expect me to believe in such a thing?
Of atheism and the default position.
As discussed in the previous blog, theist (or dishonest theist) want to shift the burden of proof on to the atheist. Unfortunate for them, not all positions are equal. There are pragmatic reasons that atheism and theism shouldn't be equal positions. If we where to grant such a thing then it would lead to a absurd contraction in some situations.
If an atheist failed to prove that "god does not exist" would that mean "god exists"? If so, what if a theist failed to prove that "god exists" as well? That would lead us to concluded that god exist and not exist at the same time. So we have to conclude how the theist wants handle the discussion is to have double standard (to avoid that contradiction) or to be inconsistent position.
This is the sticking point here: Not accepting a claim is not the same as rejecting a claim. This is what is called the null hypothesis in statistics. Lets say claim x says that there is a correlation between W and Y. If there was an significant correlation between W and Y then the claim would be accepted as true. If not then it is said that the claim is failed to be accepted. Not only this is good ontological parsimony, but allows for the claim to proved at a later date. This is exactly how it should be for the theist. If they fail to prove god exists then there is always tomorrow for them. This prevents also from accepting that ghost, goblins, fairies, or any supernatural entity before there is sufficient evidence to do so.
This means that atheism i.e. "failing to accept the claims of theism" or "not affirming the existence of a god" is the position to be held until there is sufficient evidence to accept theism as true. This lays the burden of proof squarely on the shoulders of the theist. It doesn't matter if thought the ages people believed in a god or that the majority still do believe in a god. The burden of proof is still on the theist because these facts in themselves is not evidence for a god. It is very well possible for everyone to be wrong. No one has to be right at all.
If an atheist failed to prove that "god does not exist" would that mean "god exists"? If so, what if a theist failed to prove that "god exists" as well? That would lead us to concluded that god exist and not exist at the same time. So we have to conclude how the theist wants handle the discussion is to have double standard (to avoid that contradiction) or to be inconsistent position.
This is the sticking point here: Not accepting a claim is not the same as rejecting a claim. This is what is called the null hypothesis in statistics. Lets say claim x says that there is a correlation between W and Y. If there was an significant correlation between W and Y then the claim would be accepted as true. If not then it is said that the claim is failed to be accepted. Not only this is good ontological parsimony, but allows for the claim to proved at a later date. This is exactly how it should be for the theist. If they fail to prove god exists then there is always tomorrow for them. This prevents also from accepting that ghost, goblins, fairies, or any supernatural entity before there is sufficient evidence to do so.
This means that atheism i.e. "failing to accept the claims of theism" or "not affirming the existence of a god" is the position to be held until there is sufficient evidence to accept theism as true. This lays the burden of proof squarely on the shoulders of the theist. It doesn't matter if thought the ages people believed in a god or that the majority still do believe in a god. The burden of proof is still on the theist because these facts in themselves is not evidence for a god. It is very well possible for everyone to be wrong. No one has to be right at all.
How to tell if someone is an atheist.
One of the most ridiculous and yet still most frequent argument between atheism and theism is the definition of atheism itself. It is sad that not only some theist don't understand what it means but even other atheist get confused. This happens for different reasons for each group. For the theist (especially if they are fundamentalist christian), want to shift the burden of proof on the atheist. That some how the atheist is making a claim that is equivalent to theism is making. For atheist, it just really over whether or not babies count as atheist.
The theist tries to define atheism as "the denial of god(s) existence" or "the belief that there is no god(s)". The first one is extremely dishonest because it does not give the benefit of the doubt to the atheist. They have to believe in god. It just that they are denial about it. If you said that you believed in god, it is no problem for me to accept that but if I said I don't believe in god, then I am a liar. Then some theist wonder why they get disrespected so much... The second definition makes a false dichotomy between believing that god is possible and believing that god is impossible. While believing god is impossible is one way to be an atheist (namely strong atheism), it is not the only way nor it is the way that describes the majority of atheists.
Now most atheist define atheism as "the lack of belief in a god." While this is close it is still vague enough to cause some misunderstandings. What does it mean to "lack a belief"? This leads to the idea that this can encompass inanimate objects. Thus making the definition silly. Can an object have a belief? No. So it "lacks a belief." The problem is similar to babies because the lack the ability to understand what it is to believe.
This brings me to my definition. A theist is "one who affirms the existence of a god" and an atheist is "one who does not affirm the existence of a god". On the surface this may still seem to have the same problems, however, this implies that one must have the potential to affirm something in the first place. This prevents inanimate objects from being categorized in this way but still allows for babies to be atheist. If babies are going to be atheist, then they are only implicitly and not explicitly like myself. This is why we don't talk about babies being atheist or apolitical or any other a-word. They do not do so with any conscious forethought.
The strength of my definition is that it can encompass both implicit and explicit atheism as well as both strong and weak atheism. Thus resolving all conflicts, and making the definition both meaningful and accurate.
The theist tries to define atheism as "the denial of god(s) existence" or "the belief that there is no god(s)". The first one is extremely dishonest because it does not give the benefit of the doubt to the atheist. They have to believe in god. It just that they are denial about it. If you said that you believed in god, it is no problem for me to accept that but if I said I don't believe in god, then I am a liar. Then some theist wonder why they get disrespected so much... The second definition makes a false dichotomy between believing that god is possible and believing that god is impossible. While believing god is impossible is one way to be an atheist (namely strong atheism), it is not the only way nor it is the way that describes the majority of atheists.
Now most atheist define atheism as "the lack of belief in a god." While this is close it is still vague enough to cause some misunderstandings. What does it mean to "lack a belief"? This leads to the idea that this can encompass inanimate objects. Thus making the definition silly. Can an object have a belief? No. So it "lacks a belief." The problem is similar to babies because the lack the ability to understand what it is to believe.
This brings me to my definition. A theist is "one who affirms the existence of a god" and an atheist is "one who does not affirm the existence of a god". On the surface this may still seem to have the same problems, however, this implies that one must have the potential to affirm something in the first place. This prevents inanimate objects from being categorized in this way but still allows for babies to be atheist. If babies are going to be atheist, then they are only implicitly and not explicitly like myself. This is why we don't talk about babies being atheist or apolitical or any other a-word. They do not do so with any conscious forethought.
The strength of my definition is that it can encompass both implicit and explicit atheism as well as both strong and weak atheism. Thus resolving all conflicts, and making the definition both meaningful and accurate.
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